tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8038823840472916624.post3399475115550804828..comments2024-03-28T04:29:32.814-04:00Comments on The Lands of Ara: 2d6 Bardery (Towards a B/X Bard Part 3)Carter Soleshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01286436801953647693noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8038823840472916624.post-51123524293722815892011-03-04T08:03:10.597-05:002011-03-04T08:03:10.597-05:00I guess every one has their own comfort zone for t...I guess every one has their own comfort zone for the power level of their game.<br /><br />A once a week (in game time) power that requires a once in a session power (d30 roll) to gain something that anybody of any class could gain simply through GP expenditure does not seem to me in any way shape or form overpowered at any level. Charm Person is a glorified shortcut on the desktop of the RPG computer, and it leads to more hirelings/henchmen/NPCs controlled by the players. How the rock troll became one of our allies is not really important mechanically - it performs sub-optimally compared to some 1st and 2nd level hirelings, and it is (in my opinion) therefor not overpowered<br /><br />It functions mechanically like an NPC - it takes a turn in the initiative order just like an NPC - but unlike a dwarf or barbarian tagging along with us, we have to make all kinds of special allowances for the rock troll.<br /><br />I personally would say that once the party has earned say, a few hundred gold, charm person can no longer be considered overpowered in any sense of the term because ANY member of the party can accomplish every mechanical benefit of the power simply by spending gold. <br /><br />If hirelings were priced according to their value in Labyrinth Lord, they would be worth more than a healing potion but they are priced at a fraction of the cost.<br /><br />But like I said, this is a DM's decision all the way. So is the decision to allow the d30 houserule. The decision to allow the d30 roll breaks game mechanics. It breaks them worse in spell mechanics - the Brave Halfling Bard's charm worked like a spell mechanic. <br /><br />My observation as a number-cruncher and all around systems geek and mechanical enthusiast is that this particular use of the d30 is no more or less egregious than any other use, and far less so than the way the d30 interacts with 3rd level and higher spells of either magic user or clerical variety when it comes to a mechanical impact on the game. <br /><br />But my observation as a long time RPG player and DM is that the numbers don't matter - if you as the DM react against the charm person used at first level on a rock troll and you don't react against a d30 hold person used at fourth level on an encampment of hobgoblins, that is just the way it is.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07648499022366444265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8038823840472916624.post-32445983540837160532011-02-24T16:42:29.577-05:002011-02-24T16:42:29.577-05:00Thanks for the number-crunching on this. As I sai...Thanks for the number-crunching on this. As I said in the post, my objection is not so much the existence of the rock troll nor the Bard's ability to charm one -- it is an objection to his being able to charm one SO EASILY at FIRST LEVEL, which I do see as a problem. Luckily, it's a problem that the 2d6 system remedies.Carter Soleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01286436801953647693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8038823840472916624.post-49965464264370383612011-02-22T06:11:51.084-05:002011-02-22T06:11:51.084-05:00One final note RE four 2d level Dwarf hirelings vs...One final note RE four 2d level Dwarf hirelings vs. a rock troll - they will have the same average HP (8 HD total), and outfitting them with a shield and longsword gives them the option of sacrificing the shield to prevent a damaging blow. We do occasionally lose hirelings, but we would do so less had we the foresight to equip them with shields. The rock troll has one advantage - he comes back to life, so you are basically always guaranteed to have the rock troll. The four Dwarves could all get wiped out - but they also grant so many other advantages that the rock troll does not.<br /><br />They can understand and follow spoken orders and execute complicated plans. They can stay behind and serve as guards or watchmen. They can fit anywhere the party can fit. They give a bonus to detecting traps in stonework and secret doors while searching rooms. They are not a dangerous, territorial predator that reacts aggressively towards potential niche competitors.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07648499022366444265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8038823840472916624.post-31519307226669477982011-02-22T06:04:09.001-05:002011-02-22T06:04:09.001-05:00Leaving the rock troll aside and looking at the ot...Leaving the rock troll aside and looking at the other ways the charm has been used - it has only been used when consistent with a nonmagical interpretation, assisted by careful planning (e.g. the elaborate ruse to pretend to be a rescuer while questioning the captured hobgoblin general, which you might have let work even if he had no special ability at all!). I haven't seen it as being game changing in play, and certainly not compared with every other use of the d30. d30 firebombs have been dropping fools since we cleared out that little dungeon Barberella died in.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07648499022366444265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8038823840472916624.post-87610323801332514142011-02-22T05:47:46.888-05:002011-02-22T05:47:46.888-05:00I like the 2d6 bard skill progression and like the...I like the 2d6 bard skill progression and like the way it interacts with the d30. The only thing I would question is the underlying assumption that Uncle Junkle's original ability, as played, was too powerful. The rock troll is tough to kill; that does not make it incredibly useful. In combat and dungeon exploration, it has less utility than 4 2d level Dwarf hirelings, something that the party could have afforded after the very first few sessions. Since I have rejoined the game, I have seen many combats. The rock troll has participated, if I had to guess, in considerably less than half the combats. Our hirelings participate in almost every combat.<br /><br />The rock troll (if it can even be involved in the combat due to space constraints) can attack a single opponent twice for 1d8 damage. It has a better chance to hit than a low level hireling, but it can only engage one target. Four hirelings each have a lesser chance to hit, but can engage up to four enemies and each do 1d8 damage (equal to the rock troll) if armed with longsword or battleaxe.<br /><br />Outside of combat, the rock troll is plain and simple a liability.<br /><br />If I was the DM in this situation I would look at it not as a problem that needed fixing, but a cool new feature of the campaign.<br /><br />Kom (through Uncle Junkle) has spent a lot of time in the game developing his relationship to the rock troll, spending time with it, learning to communicate with it nonverbally, and investing financially - to the point of spending hundreds (thousands?) of gold on it for the rock troll sized cloak of invisiblity and rock troll sized chariot, waiting with it and effectively removing himself from game situations because the rock troll could not logically go with the rest of the party, and basically investing a lot of time and energy in the thing NOT because it is somehow a cheat, or taking advantage of Carter, but because it is COOL to have a frickin' rock troll!<br /><br />d30 house rule breaks game mechanics. I would strongly caution against houserules designed to prevent any single application of this general principle. The most powerful and game changing use of the d30 to date was the d30 hold person that allowed us to single handedly wipe out an entire encampment of hobgoblins without taking any damage. <br /><br />Five pet rock trolls couldn't do that.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07648499022366444265noreply@blogger.com